February 29, 2012

Wednesday Wisdom

 If you have to watch every word you say, you’re not going to get much said.
 
 Lucy Van Pelt (Peanuts)

For anyone pondering the puzzles presented by the comments on this Wednesday Wisdom, below, the post that WebDiary refused to publish, from Geoffff, and subsequent banning of Israel / Zionist / anti-Semitic topics on WebDiary. 

Antisemitism and Anti-Zionism

Perhaps as late as 1947 opposition to Zionism could not be characterised as necessarily antisemitic. In 2012 it most certainly is.

There are strong supporters of Israel, especially in the centre-left who will argue cogently that they are not Zionists. The argument is compelling if you were born after 1948 and therefore had no hand in the establishment of the state. The truth is that like Michael Lumish I have never thought of myself as a Zionist even though I have been a passionate supporter of Israel and everything it stands for since June 1967. Friday June 9 1967 at 6.00 pm AEST to be precise. Before then I was just a supporter.

It is only in the last few months that I have used the term and I reckon I have written in excess of 500 000 words about this and related matters in the last eight years on this blog alone. War and Peace is only 550 000 words.  I recall being called a Zionist many times. (well yeah ?...). There have  been a few commenters over the years who have demanded I 'fess up and admit it which I found amusing. It's not as if I'm an undercover Socialist Alliance member and unrehabilitated Stalinist in the Greens parliamentary wing, or something. I bet there are heaps of those in the branches. In NSW probably all of them; but I digress.

I think its time to reclaim the word Zionist, thoroughly demonised by the antisemitic left starting in 1967 on Kremlin orders, and I will explain why.

I didn't use the term not because I find it in the slightest way offensive, perhaps even a compliment, but because it struck me as inappropriate and even pretentious especially for an Australian born after the war. I took no part in the establishment of Israel. I am not even an Israeli citizen. Zionism was the collective name of the political movements among the Jews and others that had as their object the establishment of a Jewish homeland and state. After 1917 the British irrevocably committed the Zionist movement to what the British called Palestine, or at least part of it, as the place for the national homeland and which after all was the obvious place from the start. At the time it wasn't even under British control but that was very soon to change. There was a very big war going on and wars that big must be won. It is an excellent idea to win all wars, big or small, if your country has been dragged into one (like ours). Far better of course to avoid them in first place but the alternative to winning could be catastrophic. Full control by the British did not happen until the Ottoman Empire fell apart as a consequence of being on the losing side of World War 1 and British and French civil servants carved up the whole region between them over drinks.
  
There were no Arabs in Palestine at this time who thought of themselves as "Palestinians" but there were Jews and they formed what became the Jewish Legion. Note the name. The Zion Mule Corps. It was deployed at Gallipoli and probably would have supplied front line Diggers at one time or another. A number lost their lives of course. There would have been Jews among the Turkish troops too. There were many among the Germans.

Gallipoli was not the only place where Australian and Palestinian (that is Jewish) troops would have intermixed. There should be little sympathy for the British administration of  Palestine. They broke their promise to the Zionists and broke the terms of the League of Nations mandate and international law by not allowing the establishment of a Jewish state in even a tiny part of Palestine; and they committed other appalling mistakes such as blocking the immigration of Jewish refugees fleeing for their lives. They continued the illegal blockade even after the war. The British rule was cruel and stupid and run entirely in the interests of the British. In the event it disaffected both the Arabs and the Jews and lead to a brutal three way civil war that raged right up to May 1948  In the end the civil war was won decisively by the Yeshuv but it was a close run thing.  Everyone knows what would have happened had the Yeshuv  lost. This is history.  However those who denounce the British takeover of "Palestine" as "imperialism" should remember that Australians fought and died in those campaigns. This is not history. It seems that all you have to do to be an "imperialist" in some eyes is to win the war. It doesn't matter who started it.

"Unlike their counterparts in France and Belgium, the Australians in the Middle East fought a mobile war against the Ottoman Empire in conditions completely different from the mud and stagnation of the Western Front. The light horsemen and their mounts had to survive extreme heat, harsh terrain, and water shortages. Nevertheless, casualties were comparatively light, with 1,394 Australians killed or wounded in three years of war. This campaign began in 1916 with Australian troops participating in the defence of the Suez Canal and the allied reconquest of the Sinai peninsula. In the following year Australian and other allied troops advanced into Palestine and captured Gaza and Jerusalem; by 1918 they had occupied Lebanon and Syria. On 30 October 1918 Turkey sued for peace."
  
The point of all this is that on this view Zionism ceased to exist in May 1948 having finally achieved its purpose. It became history.  Anti-Zionism should also have become history. The term survives especially in the Diaspora because the Zionist bodies and groups have continued, indeed become even more vibrant, to accommodate those who support the state. Over the years they have been able to be of enormous benefit to Israel.

I throw in a little history because I know how much the progressive Israel bashing left and their Jew hating allies in totalitarian states like Saddam's Iraq,  Syria and Iran love history. That's always struck me as odd because anyone with any knowledge of history would know that the case for the Jewish state was always compelling, astonishingly successful and has been of tremendous benefit to the world. It could have been of tremendous benefit for the Palestinians and other Arabs too but for their spiteful mediaeval political cultures.  For many Palestinians and other Arabs it has been of tremendous benefit.

Why do they talk about history so much? There must be a point to it.

When they talk about history they don't mean true history. They mean their distorted, grievance laden and bizarre keyhole take on history that has little to do with facts and much to do with inciting naked hatred and fear in the street as a political tactic to grasp or keep power. That's what totalitarian states do. The Soviet Union especially under Stalin. Mao's China. Hitler's Germany. Pol Pot's regime. Saddam's Iraq. Nasser's Egypt. Iran since the revolution. Syria. They all do it. That's why the Israel bashing left includes so many open and undercover members of the Socialist Alliance and their allies. Even outright lifelong Stalinists. They want to do the same in Australia and the rest of the West and they think the militant Islamists and their genocidal policies will help.They could be right.

They are used to doing the bidding of foreign totalitarian states run by psychopaths and tyrants. They did it right to the end with Stalin and his successors who funded them until the end. They were his willing agents in his cold war against the liberal democracies.  Another group did the same for Mao. Hitler had his supporters and agents here even after the outbreak of war. Not just Nazis and fascists but communists and their allies, including "pacifists", who were deployed by Stalin to help Hitler. The communists did so much to sabotage the war effort they had to be suppressed under emergency regulations. The same happened in France and the UK. This continued right up until Hitler threw Operation Barbarossa at Stalin prompting the mother of all policy reverses. These are the same people who are now allied with totalitarian Islamist regimes including Hamas and Iran.

Why do you think they do that?
Could it be they hate their own societies more than they have any respect for any concept of others' human rights even while they suck liberties and material wealth undreamt of by the people they target?

Could it they just hate people?

Could it be they just hate Jews?

Is it some strange demented religion thing akin to the bizarre doomsday death cults that inform official ideology in Iran for example?

Is it just about power? 
  
Someone here suggested I could not see the forest for the trees and inferred my vision was blurred by the strength of my support for Israel. In fact the complete opposite is true as is usually the case with opponents of Israel. It is they who have an astonishing absence of any feel for historical context and a truly amazing ability to filter whole slabs of it out and replace it with myth if it doesn't fit the ideology. The years between say 1910 and 1950 were perhaps the most tumultuous in history. Revolutions that turned the lives of billions upside down. World wars. Invasions.  Genocide. The collapse of empires. Genocide again. The disappearance of countries by the score and the emergence or re-emergence of even more. Partitioning everywhere. India. Ireland. Africa. Lebanon and Syria. The Gulf. Virtually the entire Middle East come to think of it. Brutal civil wars as civil wars always are. Migration on a vast scale to countries like the US, Australia and Canada. The mass movement of whole populations, often expelled or fleeing wars, tyranny, persecution or man induced famines. It is well not to lose sight of what a tiny insignificant sideshow the saga of the Arabs and Jews in Palestine was in those years. Even 1948 and the nasty civil war that preceded it was little compared to what was going on in India or China, for example, at the same time. The progressive left has entirely lost it with this. They have selected Israel/Palestine out like a grain of sand picked with tweezers from a beach and magnified it with an optical telescope; and sometimes the result is so absurd it is comical.  If you took their and their allies narrative at face value you would think that not only was the accommodation of the Jews in their own restored homeland the greatest travesty in all of history but nothing else really happened.

Why do they do that do you think?

Its nearly sixty-five years since Israel was established and there's been an awful lot of Jewish and Arab blood shed since then. But that was hardly something new for either people and it has to be said in all frankness that there are many many more Arabs and Muslims who are killed by other Arabs and Muslims, often with particular brutality, than are killed by anyone else. There is a reason for this. It is because so many of their countries have been occupied by political cultures of one sort or another that spawn grievance building monstrosity killing machines like those that oppress the people of Syria and Iran and its colonies right now.

This has to be said. Since 1948 perhaps 15000 Palestinians have been killed in operations in which the IDF (or Jewish civilians) were involved. Not all of them were killed by the IDF. Almost certainly there have been more people killed in Syria in the last few months. This is a horrible calculus and a single violent death is terrible but it may bring some perspective to the scale of these things that the progressive left must ignore to hold an anti-Zionist position. Of those 15000 probably about 3000 were civilians, mainly in the intifadas. But perhaps upward of another 40 000 Palestinians were killed in operations in which the IDF had no involvement.  These were conflicts with other Arab factions and states and within the Palestinian factions themselves and it seems most of those casualties were civilians. In those years also more than 200 000 Muslims were killed in the Lebanon civil war. 400 000 Muslims were killed in the Afghanistan civil war prior to 2001.How many have lost their lives to the Islamic revolution in Iran and other revolutions is anybody's guess.  1 million in the Iran Iraq war. Ten of thousands of Muslims have been victims of Islamic terrorism, perhaps ten times as many as non-Muslims. Even Al Qai-da kills eight times as many Muslims as non-Muslims.

Who are the Islamophobes here?

Certainly being a Muslim is no shelter from other Muslims in that part of the world. Unless of course they happen to be Israeli citizens.

It is the Arabs who are the principal victims of their sick political cultures, one after the other, and compared to these casualties, especially civilian casualties,  the "Israel/Palestine" conflict is small beer indeed. Even the Arab/Israeli conflict as a whole is a sideshow.

Why do the progressive left pretend not to know that?

In those years since 1948 Israel has become one of the most successful nations on the planet. There is no question it has become the focal point of world Jewry. The 60% of Jews who live outside of Israel also live overwhelmingly in liberal democracies; and family and other connections are strong and getting stronger. The business network is perhaps only rivalled by the Chinese.  It's large Arab minority are far and away the most free in the Arab world. The economy is booming while most of the rest of the West is in deep recession. The country has turned itself into a global high-tech hub. All this has been achieved in what modestly could be called difficult circumstances.

The Israelis are proud of their state and what they have achieved and they have a right to be. This is natural and proper. Australians too are proud of their country I have noticed and they too have a right to be. Certainly I am. Of course both countries have social ills and other problems, sometimes grave, but in both enormous resources and intellect are poured into overcoming them. That too is something to be proud of. In a number of other countries the exact opposite happens. The resources and energy are poured into creating violent social divisions and hateful grievances. There is someone around here who has defined this achievement and pride as a kind of national narcissistic personality disorder  but he is an anti-Zionist and therefore has a special problem. Ulttimately he is an anti-Australian.

Michael Lumish's blog, Israel Thrives, has a list of taboo subjects among the US version of these leftists. Thing that should never be raised let alone discussed. With a little tweaking the same list would serve as what it takes to get your mind to the place of the modern Western anti-Zionist.
  
This is a (partial) list of taboo topics around I-P within progressive-left venues. You cannot discuss this material because it undermines the "Palestinian narrative" of perpetual victimhood. This narrative is a club used by the Arab and Muslim enemies of Israel, along with their western progressive allies, to delegitimize that country in preparation for its eventual dissolution.

1) The centuries of Jewish dhimmitude under the boot of Islamic imperialism.

2) The recent construction of Palestinian identity, its connection to Soviet Cold War politics, and how this is an Arab people with a Roman name that refers to Greeks.

3) Arab and Palestinian Koranically-based racism as the fundamental source of the conflict.

4) The ways in which contemporary progressive anti-Zionism serves as a cloak for gross anti-Semitism.

5) The Palestinian theft and appropriation of Jewish history.

6) "Pallywood."

7) The historical connections between the Nazis, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Palestinian national movement.

8) The perpetual refusal of the Palestinian-Arabs to accept a state for themselves in peace next to the Jewish one.

9) The progressive portrayal of terrorists as those fighting a righteous war of "resistance."

10) The Arab-Palestinian indoctrination of children with Jew hatred.

11) Human rights violations against women and children in the Muslim Middle East.
 
To which I would add:

12) The robbing and expulsion of Jews from Arab lands and their refuge in Israel.

13) Muslims killing other Muslims in vastly greater numbers than they kill or are killed by non-Muslims; and the sick political cultures that spawn this.

14) The  tsunami of antisemitism in the West, and especially across Europe, and its connection to Muslim immigration.

15) The explosive resurgence of theological antisemitism in a form as virulent as that among Christians in the Dark Ages, and the rehabilitation of cultural antisemitism in popular entertainment.

16) The official abandonment of the two state solution by the Palestinians, and their allies and friend in the West, and its replacement with a policy that would see Israel reduced to a rump state without sovereignty over its borders or jurisdiction over its own population.

In the face of all this it seems to me it is time to declare as a Zionist and to define it. This is important because it also defines the anti-Zionist.

My sort of Zionist is a human rights activist who works for the protection of the most basic civil liberties and political rights of Israelis, men and women, and especially their right to live in a liberal democracy. Also for the basic rights of the Palestinians to be freed from the cages in the Arab countries where they have been kept on display like animals in a zoo for over sixty years. Peace and prosperity, and mutual recognition, through a two state solution in a firm economic alliance that bridges East and West to the betterment and progress of both. Freedom for all from antisemitism, bigotry, violent religious chauvinism and terrorism. . 

Above all Peace. Peace with a capital "P".

An anti-Zionist opposes all that.


93 comments:

  1. geoffff12:33 PM

    Something I just posted to another blog:




    Fiona/Richard,


    This is a formal request that some of Justin Obodes's comments and links be deleted. They are in breach of WD Guidelines.

    I don't often do this, in fact I've never done it before, but I am asking you to accept that on this occasion this has gone too far by any principle.

    The "strawman" comment that he has seized on to cast his despicable and dishonest comments had nothing to do with your blog. They were something said on another blog ( where I comment "anonymously"; or at least beyond the reach of Google) in a long standing column that has always been intended as whimsy. He has mischievously and I believe maliciously grabbed the opportunity to misrepresent me, having once again lost the argument. JO had no right to link it from WD with my name attached. If the guy had an ounce of guts he would have responded on the other blog under one of his fake names. Not on WD under one of his other fake names.

    In considering this request I ask you to take account that I, and as far as I know, all other current commenters on WD do not comment anonymously. Only JO has that privilege.

    For the record, I would prefer to be dead than a Dhimmi. I would rather be Red than dead because there is still hope but I believe all Jews would be better off dead than Dhimmis

    Some of the links he has put on WD are among the most disgustingly racist since the Third Reich. If you do not delete them I intend to make a complaint to the HREOC.

    At least one of his links is certainly illegal.

    At least I have the balls to comment here under my own name, like all the other commenters here bar one. To launch vile personal attacks on individuals in public from a position of anonymity has to be the very definition of gutlessness.

    ReplyDelete
  2. geoffff4:42 PM

    As said at another place




    Fiona/Richard,


    This is a formal request that some of Justin Obodes's comments and links be deleted. They are in breach of WD Guidelines.

    I don't often do this, in fact I've never done it before, but I am asking you to accept that on this occasion this has gone too far by any principle.

    The "strawman" comment that he has seized on to cast his despicable and dishonest comments had nothing to do with your blog. They were something said on another blog ( where I comment "anonymously"; or at least beyond the reach of Google) in a long standing column that has always been intended as whimsy. He has mischievously and I believe maliciously grabbed the opportunity to misrepresent me, having once again lost the argument. JO had no right to link it from WD with my name attached. If the guy had an ounce of guts he would have responded on the other blog under one of his fake names. Not on WD under one of his other fake names.

    In considering this request I ask you to take account that I, and as far as I know, all other current commenters on WD do not comment anonymously. Only JO has that privilege.

    For the record, I would prefer to be dead than a Dhimmi. I would rather be Red than dead because there is still hope but I believe all Jews would be better off dead than Dhimmis

    Some of the links he has put on WD are among the most disgustingly racist since the Third Reich. If you do not delete them I intend to make a complaint to the HREOC.

    At least one of his links is certainly illegal.

    At least I have the balls to comment here under my own name, like all the other commenters here bar one. To launch vile personal attacks on individuals in public from a position of anonymity has to be the very definition of gutlessness.

    ReplyDelete
  3. geoffff7:53 PM

    I cannot believe that my posts to this thread have not hold.

    ReplyDelete
  4. geoffff7:57 PM

    Fiona/Richard,

    This is a formal request that some of Justin Obodes's comments and links be deleted. They are in breach of WD Guidelines.

    I don't often do this, in fact I've never done it before, but I am asking you to accept that on this occasion this has gone too far by any principle.

    The "strawman" comment that he has seized on to cast his despicable and dishonest comments had nothing to do with your blog. They were something said on another blog ( where I comment "anonymously"; or at least beyond the reach of Google) in a long standing column that has always been intended as whimsy. He has mischievously and I believe maliciously grabbed the opportunity to misrepresent me, having once again lost the argument. JO had no right to link it from WD with my name attached. If the guy had an ounce of guts he would have responded on the other blog under one of his fake names. Not on WD under one of his other fake names.

    In considering this request I ask you to take account that I, and as far as I know, all other current commenters on WD do not comment anonymously. Only JO has that privilege.

    Some of the links he has put on WD are among the most disgustingly racist since the Third Reich. If you do not delete them I intend to make a complaint to the HREOC.

    These are the comments and links:

    http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3231/94593#comment-94593

    http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3231/94582#comment-94582

    http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3231/94560#comment-94560

    There's one other horror link that is very likely illegal. I don't have the time or stomach to find it right now.

    Geoff


    PS

    I look forward to the early publication of my bit on anti-Zionism. At least I stay well within the even extended guidelines.

    ReplyDelete
  5. geoffff8:02 PM

    Dear Webdiary,


    I have realised I need to make a better case for why my stuff ("Zionism" as Richard puts it) should be published on your blog and not simply rely on the foundation principle that all voices should get an equal and fair hearing if they have something to say.

    Firstly, I want to withdraw my request that Justin's posts be deleted, as disgusting as they are. If you have already deleted them I request they be restored, if that is possible, with the exception of this link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e88n0xyqWrU

    I'm sorry if my last email sounded high handed but I ask you to understand how distressing it is to see this after being drawn into a debate that you thought was in good faith.. I'm still having trouble getting it out of mind days later. I have relatives in the IDF. A lot of Australian Jews do. Quite a few have served in it. Imagine if you can a mocking video of grieving Australian relatives and comrades of Australian troops, or terrorist victims such as those in Bali, or Aboriginal deaths in custody; and what reception it would get. I know Jews are expected to have thick skins, that's part of the antisemitic ethos, but you must see there is a limit.

    I don't know the last time WD published a lead article on "Zionism" and I can't find out because I'm still locked out of my blog, but it has to be a couple of months. I think we need to be frank about this. There is a reluctance to put my stuff up because you are concerned about what direction it might take what remains of WD (which as far as I can see is not much) especially considering my hostility to the Greens. Please let me remind you that my posts do not inhibit other from submitting posts on any subject they choose. Also remember that was your answer to those who complained of WD's left wing bias.

    The article I submitted is not on Zionism but on antisemitism. The connection between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is one of the most important issues of the day not only for Jews but for everyone. Especially those on the left. Even Norman Finkelstein, as much as I despise the man, seems to get that. So does Noam Chomsky. For me, these men are the enemy.

    http://vimeo.com/36854424

    I don't believe the West has ever been more divided. Look at the blogs. Leaving aside hazing and troll attacks there is almost no intercourse between the sides of this debate. Just people on all sides talking to themselves about what arseholes the others are. WD is an exception. I know there are many people who are just sick of the whole thing and wish everybody would just shut up. I feel sympathy for that view but I point out that in the context of Australian politics it wasn't "the Zionists" who brought up the subject. It was the Greens. It now has to be talked through and if that proves embarrassing for the Greens and the rest of the Western left then it bloody well should be.

    I agree with Finkelstein. There is an historic opportunity to solve this dispute. It lies not in BDS but in convincing the left to adopt the two state solution. You cannot be agnostic on this subject. Finkelstein says it is dishonest. Of course it is but it is much more than that. It is antisemitic.

    I also believe I have a worthwhile personal story to tell.

    I request you remain true to your establishment principles and publish my article.

    Kindest regards,

    Geoff

    ReplyDelete
  6. geoffff8:03 PM

    Dear David, Richard and Fiona,

    If as I expect you were as disgusted by that link as I was, here's something that might help you to recover.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZLDA_smXYg&feature=related

    ReplyDelete
  7. geoffff8:08 PM

    I still can't believe it. I am about to post to this blog something that I have posted here four times before , but has been wiped in seconds. Obviously Caz is not behind this. If you get this message, but not the post following, then I invite you to wonder ... ?

    ReplyDelete
  8. geoffff8:10 PM

    Dear Webdiary,


    I have realised I need to make a better case for why my stuff ("Zionism" as Richard puts it) should be published on your blog and not simply rely on the foundation principle that all voices should get an equal and fair hearing if they have something to say.

    Firstly, I want to withdraw my request that Justin's posts be deleted, as disgusting as they are. If you have already deleted them I request they be restored, if that is possible, with the exception of this link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e88n0xyqWrU

    I'm sorry if my last email sounded high handed but I ask you to understand how distressing it is to see this after being drawn into a debate that you thought was in good faith.. I'm still having trouble getting it out of mind days later. I have relatives in the IDF. A lot of Australian Jews do. Quite a few have served in it. Imagine if you can a mocking video of grieving Australian relatives and comrades of Australian troops, or terrorist victims such as those in Bali, or Aboriginal deaths in custody; and what reception it would get. I know Jews are expected to have thick skins, that's part of the antisemitic ethos, but you must see there is a limit.

    I don't know the last time WD published a lead article on "Zionism" and I can't find out because I'm still locked out of my blog, but it has to be a couple of months. I think we need to be frank about this. There is a reluctance to put my stuff up because you are concerned about what direction it might take what remains of WD (which as far as I can see is not much) especially considering my hostility to the Greens. Please let me remind you that my posts do not inhibit other from submitting posts on any subject they choose. Also remember that was your answer to those who complained of WD's left wing bias.

    The article I submitted is not on Zionism but on antisemitism. The connection between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is one of the most important issues of the day not only for Jews but for everyone. Especially those on the left. Even Norman Finkelstein, as much as I despise the man, seems to get that. So does Noam Chomsky. For me, these men are the enemy.

    http://vimeo.com/36854424

    I don't believe the West has ever been more divided. Look at the blogs. Leaving aside hazing and troll attacks there is almost no intercourse between the sides of this debate. Just people on all sides talking to themselves about what arseholes the others are. WD is an exception. I know there are many people who are just sick of the whole thing and wish everybody would just shut up. I feel sympathy for that view but I point out that in the context of Australian politics it wasn't "the Zionists" who brought up the subject. It was the Greens. It now has to be talked through and if that proves embarrassing for the Greens and the rest of the Western left then it bloody well should be.

    I agree with Finkelstein. There is an historic opportunity to solve this dispute. It lies not in BDS but in convincing the left to adopt the two state solution. You cannot be agnostic on this subject. Finkelstein says it is dishonest. Of course it is but it is much more than that. It is antisemitic.

    I also believe I have a worthwhile personal story to tell.

    I request you remain true to your establishment principles and publish my article.

    Kindest regards,

    Geoff

    ReplyDelete
  9. geoffff8:20 PM

    Dear David, Richard and Fiona,

    If as I expect you were as disgusted by that link as I was, here's something that might help you to recover.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZLDA_smXYg&feature=related


    I'm locked out of this address:

    You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
    been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are
    being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
    editors-owner@lists.webdiary.com.au.


    I'm also locked out of another "editor-owner" list and my own blog.

    I would appreciate it if you got my last email to all who are calling the shots these days at WD on these matters.

    Kind regards,

    Geoff

    ReplyDelete
  10. geoffff8:23 PM

    Geoff, I've complied with your requests and will notify Justin that these comments have been withdrawn for that reason. Feel free in future to make such requests without attaching a threat to go over our heads.


    I'm going to have a co-editorial discussion as to whether the page needs yet another thread being devoted to Zionism before making a final decision.


    With regards, Richard



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: gpahoff1@bigpond.com
    To: fionajr@gmail.com; richard_tonkin@hotmail.com
    Subject: Webdiary Guidelines
    Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 12:18:49 +1100


    Fiona/Richard,

    This is a formal request that some of Justin Obodes's comments and links be deleted. They are in breach of WD Guidelines.

    I don't often do this, in fact I've never done it before, but I am asking you to accept that on this occasion this has gone too far by any principle.

    The "strawman" comment that he has seized on to cast his despicable and dishonest comments had nothing to do with your blog. They were something said on another blog ( where I comment "anonymously"; or at least beyond the reach of Google) in a long standing column that has always been intended as whimsy. He has mischievously and I believe maliciously grabbed the opportunity to misrepresent me, having once again lost the argument. JO had no right to link it from WD with my name attached. If the guy had an ounce of guts he would have responded on the other blog under one of his fake names. Not on WD under one of his other fake names.

    In considering this request I ask you to take account that I, and as far as I know, all other current commenters on WD do not comment anonymously. Only JO has that privilege.

    Some of the links he has put on WD are among the most disgustingly racist since the Third Reich. If you do not delete them I intend to make a complaint to the HREOC.

    These are the comments and links:

    http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3231/94593#comment-94593

    http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3231/94582#comment-94582

    http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/3231/94560#comment-94560

    There's one other horror link that is very likely illegal. I don't have the time or stomach to find it right now.

    Geoff


    PS

    I look forward to the early publication of my bit on anti-Zionism. At least I stay well within the even extended guidelines

    ReplyDelete
  11. geoffff8:39 PM

    I say again to anybody who is listening: I would rather be dead than a Dhimmi.

    I would rather be Red than dead because that would mean there was still something of a chance. But I am certain that all Jews would be better off dead than Dhimmis.

    Why you just don't get that I don't understand. I honestly can't. I have theories, Justin, but none of them reflect kindly on you as a human being..

    ReplyDelete
  12. geoffff10:05 AM

    The Editors' decision on what happens next (nothing) is now posted on the Syria thread. The offer to look at any other specific complaint and if necessary remove the offending comment or link is still open.


    What the decision says is:


    That's all folks


    Well, I'm sure you've all had fun, considering the increasing levels of vitriol on this thread, and latterly threats of legal action over things that have been said or linked to.

    Enough. You aren't listening to each other, as far as I can see, just reading enough to find something to be outraged by.

    It is the opinion of the Editors that it's time to end this subject and close the comments box, and, for the time being at least, to add the 'Israel/Zion/anti-semitism' trope to the list of things we won't publish any further comments on.



    On 01/03/2012, at 3:35 PM, David Roffey (GM Webdiary) wrote:


    Point me to the link and I'll look at it.


    I tried but, sorry, cannot bring myself to read through all 58 dreary repetitive comments looking at every link.


    On 01/03/2012, at 2:51 PM, Geoff Pahoff wrote:


    Also I realise now I made a mistake in the selection of the comments I was complaining about. The posts I was referring to were earlier where Justin linked me by name to another blog where I was commenting under the radar on a whimsical thread.

    I say again I would rather be dead than a Dhimmi. I would rather be Red than dead because there might still be hope; but I believe all Jews would be better off dead than Dhimmis.

    Nothing whimsical about that.

    ReplyDelete
  13. geoffff10:07 AM

    All of those words are David Roffey's, not mine.

    ReplyDelete
  14. geoffff1:43 PM

    Dear Webdiary,

    This is to deplore your decision to ban me (actually worse than that - ban everything I write) from your blog. The grounds for it are spurious and beyond contempt. Stop telling lies. Try a little truth if you honestly believe you have anything worthwhile to say. I know you haven't. I don't even believe you do. Stop lying to yourselves if you expect others to have the slightest bit of respect for you.

    The article I submitted is not on Zionism but on antisemitism. The connection between antisemitism and anti-Zionism is one of the most important issues of the day not only for Jews but for everyone; especially those on the left. Even Norman Finkelstein, as much as I despise the man, seems to get that. So does Noam Chomsky.


    http://vimeo.com/36854424

    Listen to the man. He's your guy; not ours.

    I don't believe the West has ever been more divided. Look at the blogs. Leaving aside hazing and troll attacks there is almost no intercourse between the sides of this debate. Just people on all sides talking to themselves about what arseholes the others are. WD is an exception. I know there are many people who are just sick of the whole thing and wish everybody would just shut up. I feel sympathy for that view but I point out that in the context of Australian politics it wasn't "the Zionists" who brought up the subject. It was the Greens. It now has to be talked through and if that proves embarrassing for the Greens and the rest of the Western left then it bloody well should be.

    I agree with Finkelstein. There is an historic opportunity to solve this dispute. It lies not in BDS but in convincing the left to adopt the two state solution. You cannot be agnostic on this subject. Finkelstein says it is dishonest. Of course it is but it is much more than that. It is antisemitic.

    You have committed yourselves to a racist and genocidal policy out of the most disgusting of all human motives. Cowardice and self serving apathy.You call yourselves activists? Party unity above all else. If you had an ounce of moral decency among the lot of you, you would hang your heads in shame.

    I intend to go in harder now than ever before. Your party does not deserve to survive. I will get my article published as widely as I can and I will point out it was banned by you and why. You need to be exposed for what you are.

    Regards

    Geoff Pahoff

    ReplyDelete
  15. geoffff1:45 PM

    Correction

    Webdiary WAS an exception.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Unbelievable.

    I do believe the fellow's lost it.

    ReplyDelete
  17. geoffff3:40 PM

    But you have always believed that.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous11:24 PM

    Yes Geoff, but what about the subject matter.


    j

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous11:46 PM

    Caz, we have a numerical disconnect. Your Home Page records 24 comments on this thread, yet the comments page only records 18 comments.

    I always knew computers couldn't count, and that proves it.

    Mmmmm

    j

    ReplyDelete
  20. oh frig!

    now blogger is going plain batty.

    bad enough we have the whole time space warp going on, not to mention my missing spanners and garbage bins.

    now blogger can't even fooking count in little numbers?!

    outrageous!

    thought it might be to do with the spam problem (most of the comments over last 24 hours went straight to spam, and had to be rescued), but rechecked spam and nothing left in the folder. Can only think I might have accidentally deleted some when I was un-spamming, but even that makes no sense.

    ReplyDelete
  21. geoffff3:34 AM

    What Webdiary will not publish:

    1. Denial of the existence of the holocaust.

    2. Allegations that a Western power or powers were behind the attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001
    3. "False flag" theories.

    4 'Israel/Zion/anti-semitism' trope

    Don't mention the Jews. At least not within hearing distance of one of them.

    ReplyDelete
  22. geoffff7:59 AM

    Bait me as much as you like, Justin. You know I will always bite. Have fun. I am. It's a strange psychological thing. At least Father Park eats his catch.

    No liberal democracy in history as ever willingly gone to war. Not one. Free people hate war. Every war has been started by some autocratic or totalitarian killing machine run by a handful of men who hold or have grabbed power through the power of hate and fear.

    Only an antisemite thinks Israel is an exception.

    The best chance for world peace is for liberal democracy to be spread across the planet. It is also the best chance for humankind. Bring it on.

    If that makes me a "neo-conservative", so be it. I'm a neo con Zionist.

    No doubt they will write that on my tombstone.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous9:07 AM

    It's a strange psychological thing.

    Yes Geoff, we understand mate.

    bring it on

    j

    ReplyDelete
  24. geoffff10:54 PM

    Fuck off
    Dickhead

    ReplyDelete
  25. No liberal democracy in history as ever willingly gone to war. Not one.

    Deary me.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Fuck off
    Dickhead


    It never ends, does it?

    No liberal democracy in history as ever willingly gone to war

    Nah, they're bloody forced to it by the international socialist banking fucking cartel.

    Gufff, why on earth don't you START YOUR OWN BLOG and do this shit there, huh?

    You know? Rather than colonising other people's blogs, and telling other commenters to "fuck off dickhead" as if you goddamned-well own the fucking blog?

    What is it, Goofff? Alcoholism? Mental illness? Both?

    ReplyDelete
  27. geoffff6:40 AM

    ... and thanks for getting me banned from Webdiary, arsehole.

    Well technically, not banned. So long as I confine my comments to Melbourne Cup fashion.

    You do know what this means don't you.

    I will have to START MY OWN BLOG. Something I've managed to avoid doing for over ten years.

    Thanks again, fuck features.

    Now we have to decide on the name.

    How's

    Geoffff's Joint

    sound?

    ReplyDelete
  28. geoffff6:43 AM

    Jacob, I rarely drink at all these days and if I'm mentally ill I'm in excellent company.

    ReplyDelete
  29. geoffff6:53 AM

    I say again, no liberal democracy in history has ever willingly gone to war. We were dragged into WW1, and by all accounts a lot of people were happy about it, but we were part of an empire led by a country that most certainly NOT a liberal democracy whose population was definitely not militaristic.

    Once a war has started it is necessary to adopt and ingrain a certain mindset that many people find disgusting but is essential if you are going to win the war. But no modern state like Australia, Israel, US, Canada etc has ever been led by a Government that has war as policy.

    ReplyDelete
  30. geoffff7:07 AM

    ... and you can fuck off too.

    ReplyDelete
  31. geoffff7:31 AM

    No liberal democracy in history as ever willingly gone to war.

    You can see the reason for that on the other thread.

    ReplyDelete
  32. geoffff7:41 AM

    I like posting here for I know with certainty that at least three people actually read the stuff I write. Justin, Jacob and Father Park. They remind me of this time and time again.

    I liked posting at Webdiary because I knew with certainty at least one person had to read it. The moderator who invariably was a Green or some other form of lefty.

    I've always thought it would be awful to open up a blog that attracted no comments at all. Just you talking into the ether. It would be like starting a war and nobody came.

    But you blokes would know all about that.

    ReplyDelete
  33. geoffff7:42 AM

    Today's my birthday. I'm 58.

    ReplyDelete
  34. geoffff8:45 AM

    Today is an historic day at Webdiary. I've managed to get Israel banned from discussion there.

    Yes this is true. It not an attempt at some form of joke. Australia's most venerable and best known left wing blog (outside of the ABC)has banned "Israel". No joke. Israel. Banned from Webdiary.

    "It is the opinion of the Editors that it's time to end this subject and close the comments box, and, for the time being at least, to add the 'Israel/Zion/anti-semitism' trope to the list of things we won't publish any further comments on."

    To fully appreciate the scale of this achievement you need only go to the blog search facility and type in "israel". I get 29,200 results and that just from a search of topic headings. "Britain" only gets 5,120. The "united states" and "us" only 2,130 between them. "Australia" only gets 33,200.

    Now look at the whole list of banned subjects (and why).

    "Webdiary will not publish comments or host discussion on the following matters:

    "1. Denial of the existence of the holocaust.
    "2. Allegations that a Western power or powers were behind the attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001
    "3. "False flag" theories.

    "Why these three? It isn't just because of the content, but also because experience of these debates tells us that in fact no debate is possible: the two (or more) sides endlessly repeat the same arguments to which the other side isn't listening."

    To which we now add

    "4. 'Israel/Zion/anti-semitism' trope"

    Note the reason. Not because these are havens for every crackpot loony lefty and their nazi allies; but because no one is listening to each other.

    Bullshit. The problem for Webdiary is too many people were listening. And rolling around in disgust. And laughing their heads off.

    I didn't mean to get "Israel" banned just like I didn't mean to get the other three topics banned. But I did it and now that it has happened I'm claiming credit for all four.

    This is an astonishing achievement by any measure if I do say so myself. Spread the word.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous9:24 AM

    Many happy returns Geoff, have a great birthday mate.


    j

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous9:43 AM

    GEOFFFF'S JOINT sounds perfect mate - I wouldn't miss it for all the hash in Morocco.

    Can't wait.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  37. Happy birthday Geoff!

    ReplyDelete
  38. The unpublished article, submitted to WD by Geoffff, now added to this WW post.

    FYI

    ReplyDelete
  39. geoffff11:09 AM

    Thank you.

    Andrew Breithart, co -founder of probably the most successful political blogs in history, the Huffington Post, is dead at 43, probably from heart disease.

    "I love my job. I like fighting for what I believe in. I love having fun while doing it. I love fighting back. I love finding allies and -- famously -- I enjoy making enemies."

    RIP

    ReplyDelete
  40. geoffff11:16 AM

    Thanks Caz for putting it up. I can honestly understand why decent people are sick of these subjects.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous11:24 AM

    More of the same Geoff, but what about the land grab, and the brutal apart-hate nation Israel really is.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  42. geoffff12:26 PM

    A great blog that I linked in the article and where I will provide links to here when I get around to it.

    http://karmafishies.blogspot.com.au/

    I discovered it when I was attracted to this thread:

    http://karmafishies.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/exposure-of-political-hypocrisy-from.html#disqus_thread

    Any suggestions for a blog vehicle?

    I was going to go with "Geoffff's Joint" for the name but have now got leery after it so resoundingly got Justin's approval.

    How about "Geoffff's Joint, Bar and Grill"?

    ReplyDelete
  43. geoffff12:29 PM

    Also this great blog.

    http://oldschooltwentysix.blogspot.com.au/

    ReplyDelete
  44. I'm voting for Geoffff's Joint, Bar and Grill.

    Blogger is really your only option, dead easy to use, and free.

    Typepad is a paid blogging tool, but cheap, I think. Probably doesn't offer much more functionality to Blogger, nowadays.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous3:39 PM

    Blogger is really your only option, dead easy to use, and free.

    Caz, is that your way of saying that Geoff is not very bright, and tight with his cash?


    j

    ReplyDelete
  46. Ooooh, I knew I should have chosen my words more carefully.

    Free - which is exactly how the Internet should be; and dead easy, as in: even the technologically challenged (including the deceased) can set up and publish a professional looking blog within three minutes.

    So yes, just as I and millions of others have done, I believe Geoffff would manage quite nicely with Blogger!

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous4:45 PM

    Methinks Geoff would turn Blogger into Zlogger.

    Then again he could simply take over the Avatar Panties site. I just posted a comment on it, but it didn't appear. I wished Geoff a happy birthday.


    j

    ReplyDelete
  48. I still resent the appropriation of my blog name; prick, whoever he is. Seems he lost interest in his own cause very quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous6:35 PM

    So Andrew Breitbart is dead. Here’s what I have to say to that, and I’m sure Breitbart himself would have respected this reaction: Good! Fuck him. I couldn’t be happier that he’s dead.

    Matt Taibbi - Rolling Stone

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous6:35 PM

    That was me above.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  51. Yep, Andrew Breitbart: my care factor?

    Bemused that Geoffff, anyone in Oz would be interested, startled, or sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I say again, no liberal democracy in history has ever willingly gone to war. We were dragged into WW1...

    So,we now have a terminus ante quem for Geoffff's history: nothing exists before WWI.

    Oh deary, deary me.

    ReplyDelete
  53. That would be terminus post quem. But I knew that. My fingers shouldn't drink.....

    As well, it should be stated that this the terminus post quem for "liberal" democracies if Geofffff's world.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous8:48 AM

    The truth is—and my Air Force colleagues have given me some of this—the Israelis could not take out Iran’s facilities now. The Israelis could not mount, without going to desperate ends, a 100-plane strike, which is going to be necessary. They can barely get a hundred airplanes out of their fleet. If they go to the end of their operational tether without refueling help from us, I predict that it will be as big a failure or worse than their incursion into Lebanon in July 2006. And I say that for two reasons: 1) they will fail militarily, and 2) regardless of their exquisite public-affairs campaign to portray it otherwise, the world will know they failed. So, this is a disaster for Israel if it goes ahead and executes.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/03/lawrence-wilkerson-middle-east-nancy-schoenberger-israel-iran-nuclear-weapons

    j

    ReplyDelete
  55. geoffff12:21 PM

    There were very few liberal democracies before WW1. Arguably none given that even in the US and Switzerland women did not have the vote; and Australia and New Zealand were still a part of an empire and did not really have independent foreign policies in any event. The same in the French Third Republic. Certainly nothing in the ancient world would qualify.

    Even on an expanded definition there has never been a case of democracies going to war against one another. The closest would be the American Civil War but even that does not qualify given that in the South in 1860, 4,000,000 people were owned by the other 8,000,000. The war of 1812 (between Britain [and Canada] and the US) also does not qualify for the above reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous5:41 PM

    Therefore if all the liberal democracies get together and blow the shit out of every other nation that is not a liberal democracy, and then force them into being liberal democracies then we can all live in peace.

    Just like Iraq, and Libya for example.

    Good luck with that.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  57. geoffff9:21 PM

    Iraq does not have Saddam anymore.

    Libya does not have Gadaffi.

    Ask the Libyans and Iraqis how they feel about that. From what I can see they have made their feelings pretty transparent.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous10:36 PM

    Strauss noted that thinkers of the first rank, going back to Plato, had raised the problem of whether good and effective politicians could be completely truthful and still achieve the necessary ends of their society. By implication, Strauss asks his readers to consider whether it is true that noble lies have no role at all to play in uniting and guiding the polis. Are myths needed to give people meaning and purpose and to ensure a stable society? Or can men dedicated to relentlessly examining, in Nietzsche's language, those "deadly truths," flourish freely? Thus, is there a limit to the political, and what can be known absolutely? In The City and Man, Strauss discusses the myths outlined in Plato's Republic that are required for all governments. These include a belief that the state's land belongs to it even though it was likely acquired illegitimately and that citizenship is rooted in something more than the accidents of birth. Wiki

    Now Geoff why would anybody in the right minds believe anything a proud neo-con Zionist would have to say, for god's sake?

    How many Libyians and Iraqis have you surveyed? Where are the results, what methodology was used and who conducted/financed the survey. Table what you have lad.

    That said, at least while the Zionist propaganda machine runs hot, pointing the finger at Iran, it at least takes international attention away from the LAND GRABB, doesn't it. And especially when Bibbi went to meet BO. Mmmmm.


    But some people are addressing the subject matter.



    j

    ReplyDelete
  59. geoffff12:05 AM

    http://vimeo.com/36854424

    Listen to the man. He's your guy; not ours.

    ReplyDelete
  60. geoffff5:53 AM

    "Thus, is there a limit to the political, and what can be known absolutely? In The City and Man, Strauss discusses the myths outlined in Plato's Republic that are required for all governments. These include a belief that the state's land belongs to it even though it was likely acquired illegitimately and that citizenship is rooted in something more than the accidents of birth."

    Your problem Justin (and let's be clear about this -- it is your problem) when Strauss talks about "the state" he means all states. A plurality. You on the other hand read this to mean "The State" and we all know which State you mean.

    That makes you something ugly indeed.

    You won't listen to your man so maybe you'll listen to your top man.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5hY-gffV0M

    He doesn't mince his words about what this either.

    It's official. BDS is an antisemitic cult and it doesn't need me to say so. Finkelstein and Chomsky have diagnosed it. It was inescapable really. They had to. These men are getting on and have their legacies to think about.

    ReplyDelete
  61. geoffff3:18 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHvW2NhIHk&feature=player_embedded

    ReplyDelete
  62. geoffff3:25 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CvgEOiEWCo&feature=player_embedded

    BDS is an antisemitic cult with direct descent from the Nazis

    ReplyDelete
  63. geoffff3:27 PM

    The world lost a great man on Thursday morning.

    Andrew Breitbart stood up to the totalitarian left and inspired people around the world to speak up. And like most intelligent moral people he was a passionate supporter of Israel.

    Andrew Breitbart (1969-2012) RIP

    Caroline Glick

    http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2012/03/andrew-breitbart-rip.php

    In Memoriam: Andrew Breitbart (1969-2012)

    http://americansstandwithisrael.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/in-memoriam-andrew-breitbart-1969-2012.html

    Tragic News: Conservative Hero Andrew Breitbart Is Dead at 43

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/anfrew-breitbart-dead/

    Andrew Breitbart on Obama dealings on Israel- at BlogWorld Expo NYC

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0LwRBP_f4g

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous6:14 PM

    Bloody hell I never knew that: the BDS has been inspired by Hitler. Great propaganda video Geoff.

    Now, what did them 51 Documents have to say about them racist Zionist getting all cosy with Hilter and Mussolini?

    Lenni's waiting on the debate about that one, but no one will debate him.

    Anyway mate, as time goes by more and more punters are waking up to the fact that the biggest promoters of anti-semitism have been Zionists (part of the business model), they can't get enough of it:

    Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.

    In order to maintain a Jewish majority in the state of "Israel", its leaders promote anti-Semitism throughout the world to "encourage" Jews to leave their homelands and seek "refuge".”


    Geoff, what's the problem? The BDS mobs are your best friends. Anti-semites are your best friends.

    And Geoff, what about that LAND GRAB - what entitles Zionists to steal other peoples stuff?

    j

    ReplyDelete
  65. Geoffff - I'd be far more impressed with (now deceased) Andrew Breitbart if he had displayed his superior intelligence and morality authority by being passionate about the cause of women, everywhere, and female children - prior and subsequent to birth - of which there are more than 3 billion in the world.

    It would no doubt be more (should be 51 per cent of the population, if left to nature), if not for the tens of millions of aborted babies over the last decades, and continues to this day.

    Is the sole benchmark of an intelligent and moral person Zionism? Really?!

    That's a remarkably narrow benchmark and view of the world.

    The video containing his comments about Obama was, to say the least, intellectually bereft, all supposition, transference and pseudo-psychology. A gross disservice to any individual, but quite scurrilous when applied to POTUS. How would he know what Obama was thinking, based purely on his body language, based on what he might or might not have studied thirty years ago (few of us cling to the lefty brain washing of our uni days).

    Anyway, his influence and profile here is zip, other than the extreme right wing, who certainly seem to have worshiped at his alter.

    The debate on whether or not a liberal democracy has ever willingly gone to war has been interesting!

    ReplyDelete
  66. More interesting piece in The Age today: 'Great Satan' backs 'small Satan': Obama reaffirms stance against Iran

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/great-satan-backs-small-satan-obama-reaffirms-stance-against-iran-20120306-1uf46.html#ixzz1oKGS1yEV

    Yes, some terrorists really do hate the West, and their extreme right wing ways, more than they hate Israel.

    ReplyDelete
  67. "For his part, President Barack Obama reaffirmed the United States's staunch support of Israel and stance against Iran's nuclear program.

    “The United States will always have Israel's back when it comes to Israel's security," said President Obama, as he had in a speech to the AIPAC on Sunday night."

    ReplyDelete
  68. His body language looked remarkably relaxed and happy, too.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous8:53 PM

    Geoffff, what is morality?

    j

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous10:10 PM

    Now I know why Geoffff loves that Andrew joker.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NzHHQASizE

    Is he for real?

    j

    ReplyDelete
  71. geoffff1:02 AM

    Is he for real?

    No Justin. He's dead.

    ReplyDelete
  72. geoffff7:35 AM

    I don't carry any particular torch for American (or for that matter Australian, and especially not European) conservatives, Caz; and I regard myself as of the political centre. But I do admire the way they have stuck it to the ugly left with verve, vigour and wit and how adeptly they have used the communication revolution to do that. I infinitely prefer the conservative commentators to those of the left. These bloggers are the heroes of our age. They are hated by the left --- good.

    Of course Israel/Zionism etc is an impossibly narrow prism to view the world. But it has become a lightning rod of our age; perhaps THE lightning rod because it is global (or at least across the West). It is the left that has done that. They have been active and dangerously obsessed with Israel since 1974 and there can be no doubt that ultimately it was on Kremlin orders. I've watched with bewilderment, horror and deep visceral disgust at the sheer cynicism, spit in your face lying and, yes, immorality of this since 1974.

    There was an important speech from Kelly O'Dwyer a few weeks ago that attracted international attention and it a large slab here.

    http://karmafishies.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/exposure-of-political-hypocrisy-from.html#disqus_thread


    "In Australia during this time one must ask the questions- Who stands conspicuously quiet [about Syria and Iran]? Who stands silent while these human rights are abused? It is not those sitting directly opposite me. It is, in fact, the Greens, those people who suggest that they are the champions of human rights and the keepers of the moral chalice, those professed keepers of all that is right and ethical. Where, I ask you, is Senator Brown in condemning these actions? Where is Senator Hanson-Young on her soapbox demanding justice? Where is the member for Melbourne, Adam Bandt, in this chamber supporting this motion? Where are the Greens protests in the streets? Most importantly, given all that we have learned about the boycott, divestments and sanctions scheme that grew from the Greens local council movement in Marrickville, where are the calls for the boycotts of Iranian companies or even of Syrian ones, to be truly consistent? No, all that is simply reserved for Israel."

    ReplyDelete
  73. geoffff7:36 AM

    "Interestingly, the Greens also profess to be strong champions of human rights, particularly for those who are homosexual. Yet it is the country of Israel, the only democracy in the region, that legislates rights for women and homosexuals. In fact, in a recent poll conducted by GayCities.com in conjunction with American Airlines, Tel Aviv was rated the best gay travel destination of 2011. Yet here the Greens condemn Israel and not Iran.
    Could you imagine if the Prime Minister of Israel had prayed for the ‘annihilation’ of the Palestinians? How many motions would the Greens have moved by now? How many press releases, demonstrations and media conferences would they have called? I conducted a search on the Greens website. I typed ‘Iran’ into their search feature, 23 results were returned and in those results there was not one mention—not one, single, solitary mention—of the atrocities that have taken place, of the abhorrent preachings of the President of Iran or of the blatant human rights abuses posed against ethnic minorities, women and homosexuals. However, if you type in ‘Israel’ you will find pages and pages and pages—in particular pages as to how you can be involved as well in the BDS movement. This is a truly sad state of affairs and it is of great concern in particular to me that the Greens do not stand with us in this chamber against such violence against human rights workers, women’s rights activists, journalists and government opponents."

    I would much much have preferred to spend my political energy on other issues. I hate the left for not having allowed this. If you think you're sick of it then you're not half of sick of it as I am. You cannot imagine how sick of it the Israelis are.


    You know what I am trying to do. I'm doing by best to help split the Greens and to isolate the left. I regard this as an important public and national duty. There are many people trying to do the same thing here, the US, Canada and the rest of the West. All the better to destroy them.

    Once that job is done then perhaps we can get devote more energy to better subjects. It won't be in my lifetime I'm afraid -- but on reflection the fact that Webdiary banned "Israel" is a good sign.

    I now intend to make a pest of myself on the Greens own blogs. I doubt I will get a hearing. These people are not liberals and have little patience for free speech except their own. They are authoritarian by instinct.

    But I'll give it a go.

    ReplyDelete
  74. geoffff7:36 AM

    Fucking HTML again

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous8:40 AM

    Yes Geoff, but what about that LAND GRAB?

    j

    ReplyDelete
  76. geoffff10:54 AM

    Yes Justin, but what is this LAND GRAB of which you speak?

    There have been so many of them.

    This one perhaps?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

    Or do you mean this one?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

    Or this one?

    http://www.meforum.org/263/why-jews-fled-the-arab-countries

    Or this? or this? or this? or this? or this?

    http://www.meforum.org/meq/

    ReplyDelete
  77. geoffff10:58 AM

    or this

    http://www.meforum.org/1886/the-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine

    ReplyDelete
  78. geoffff11:03 AM

    Or perhaps something a little more communistic and continental is more to your taste

    http://rt.com/news/polish-jews-private-property/

    ReplyDelete
  79. geoffff11:08 AM

    Perhaps you mean the whole of east Jerusalem? Overwhelmingly Jewish until 1947 (and had been for centuries)until about 2000 of them were butchered, the survivors expelled and their property stolen and occupied by Muslim squatters ever since?

    ReplyDelete
  80. Anonymous6:52 PM

    How many Muslim squatters live in Jerusalem?

    How many Zionist "settlers" are living on stolen land?

    The facts on the ground betray the propaganda.

    http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2012/03/gaza-flooded-after-israel-opens-dam-gates

    j

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  81. geoffff10:01 PM

    I can't believe you believe a single word of that bullshit.

    Seriously, do you and your type believe a single word of this?

    Justin, seriously you are some kind of religious crank. No question. What religion you are is irrelevant. Communist, Anarchist, Traditional Catholic Anglican, I don't care. Most people have the luxury of ignoring you or holding you in utter contempt. People like me do not.

    That's because we are such a tiny minority. About 0.4% of the population. Cranks like you outnumber us by about ten to one, man woman and child, even if you are only about 2 or 3 % of the population.

    This is the only reason why you get away with this filth. Otherwise you would be in jail.

    You're a coward, Justin. Take it from me. I've observed you, on and off, over a number of years, and there is no question this is your defining personality trait.

    Gutlessness. Sheer fucking cowardice of the worst kind.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Anonymous11:08 PM

    What bullshit?

    If it's bullshit then table some stuff that proves same.

    Table stuff that proves Zionists did not collaborate with Nazis and Fascists as revealed in the 51 documents.

    Did or did not Herzl write: that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.


    And the LAND GRAB continues.

    Those who demonstrate re the conditions in Gaza are accused of being filth, yet you fail to address Israel's brutal and humiliating boycott of Gaza. You can't have it both ways lad.


    Once again you simply dismiss the subject matter, abuse me, go into a rage and expose your real self, which appears to be nothing more than a microcosm of the collective Zionist mindset. A pathological narcissistic mindset.

    And here is that question again, the one you have not got the courage to answer:

    Do you expect any reasonable soul to believe anything have to write, taking into account the dictatorial, manic, deceptive and disturbed manner in which it is presented; or would the fair minded soul give credence to those who address the subject matter in a sober, articulate and compassionate manner?

    Geoff you have nothing to offer, you can't even answer very simple questions without going into an irrational rage - think about it, and what your problem may be.


    Geoff Zionists aren't special, Jews aren't special, nobody is special (except Audrey H), so get over it and start acting your age for Christ's sake.

    j

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  83. geoffff3:25 AM

    My last comment was a little over the top. It's been a tough few days with the old folks. Sorry.

    BTW

    The 51 documents have (has?) about as much credibility as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

    The history of this is well known. Of course the Zionists tried to broker a desperate deal with Eichmann (and the US and Britain) to save the lives of the Hungarian Jews. They failed, as they must have known they would. Every single detail of this tiny facet of history has been on the record for decades. This has fuelled poisonous remonstrating and provided fodder for nitpicking nasty and particularly ugly antisemites ever since.

    Justin, you are the dupe of the nastiest and most vile political mindset in all of history. You simply can not get your mind around the fact that 535,000 of these people were murdered in cold blood. That's because you don't want to. But you can't leave it alone either.

    That says something pretty ugly about you.

    ReplyDelete
  84. geoffff3:34 AM

    http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2012/03/gaza-flooded-after-israel-opens-dam-gates

    Every single word of this is a lie. Every hate filled and particularly filthy lie. Press TV? The Iranian official newsagency. What would you expect? And Justin quotes it as authority without the slightest quibble. He may as well quote Goebbels.

    That says something pretty ugly about him.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous10:11 AM

    Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.

    In order to maintain a Jewish majority in the state of "Israel", its leaders promote anti-Semitism throughout the world to "encourage" Jews to leave their homelands and seek "refuge".”



    Did Theo Herzl write the above Geoff? If so he is one sick dude. If not then provide the proof.

    Did Zionists collaborate with Hitler? Would you be willing to debate Lenni Brenner on the the subject matter of 51 Documents?

    It's interesting that Herzl's comments, and the Revisonist's relationship with Hitler are totally consistent.

    You keep telling me the subject matter I table is all filthy lies, but the only proof you provide is abuse.

    Do you expect any reasonable soul to believe anything you have to write, taking into account the dictatorial, manic, deceptive and disturbed manner in which it is presented; or would the fair minded soul give credence to those who address the subject matter in a sober, articulate and compassionate manner?


    And the LAND GRAB continues.

    And so does the indoctrination.

    Geoff you can huff and puff all you like but it will never change the reality on the ground, and the brutal (self obsessed) nature of the Zionist mindset.

    I find the Peled family far more articulate, honest, thoughtful, compassionate, and above all believable, than your angry, self obsessed, and irrational self.

    Think about it.



    j

    ReplyDelete
  86. geoffff11:30 AM

    "In order to maintain a Jewish majority in the state of "Israel", its leaders promote anti-Semitism throughout the world to "encourage" Jews to leave their homelands and seek "refuge""

    Did Herzl write that? Of course he didn't! you arsehole! Can't you see what is going on here? Are you so dumb and malicious not to know?

    "Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies."

    Did Herzl say that? I don't know. Research it yourself, you prick. It's fair comment, that's for sure. It's something I would have said if I was a foundation Zionist without a moment's hesitation. It's the truth. Turn your enemies on themselves. Basic.

    Herzl died in 1904. Hitler was 15 in 1904. For you to draw a straight line between this and the genocide of the Jews, and the inference you invite us to draw from it, that the Zionists collaborated in the mass murder of the Jews, says something very ugly about you at the very core of your soul. You disgust me Justin and the only reason I rabbit on about it is to expose this increasingly common way of thinking for what it is.

    The foulest, cowardly and most septic and dangerous slander in all of history.

    If you had an ounce of decency and morality about you at all you would hang your head in shame.

    No wonder you haven't got the balls to comment other than anonymously. You are a coward Justin. You must at least agree with that.

    "Geoffff's Joint, Bar and Grill" coming soon. Putting the pricks in their place for all the world to see.

    ReplyDelete
  87. geoffff11:46 AM

    "I find the Peled family far more articulate, honest, thoughtful, compassionate, and above all believable, than your angry, self obsessed, and irrational self.

    "Think about it."

    I have thought about it Justin. Long and hard. Obviously you have too. I don't even know who the "Paled family" is. Given that you just linked a Press TV piece as authority that the Jews dumped 30 000 tons of shit on the Muslims, I doubt they even exist. That's called racist slander Justin -- something that you and the rest of the mongrel murderous nazi left are into in a big way.

    The left are the new Nazis. That is not hyperbole. It is the truth. Soon this will become a shooting war. There is not a shadow of doubt about that either. Keep your head down you prick.

    ReplyDelete
  88. geoffff11:52 AM

    The Second Coming
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight; somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?




    Printings: The Dial (Chicago), November 1920; The Nation (London), 6 November 1920; Michael Robartes and the Dancer (Dundrum: Cuala, 1921); Later Poems (London: Macmillan, 1922; 1924; 1926; 1931).

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anonymous12:17 PM

    "It's something I would have said if I was a foundation Zionist without a moment's hesitation."

    Getting into bed with Hitler certainly did something, didn't it. Yep, Hilter the anti-semite, the Revisionists best friend, someone to help encourage Jews to run to Israel - a dream come true.

    Well it all got out of hand, all that wheeling and dealing, didn't it? It all blew up with Hitler's “final solution of the Jewish question.” - truly, one should be very careful of the company one keeps, and nurtures (for what ever pragmatic reason) - especially if that company is psychopathic.

    Zionists Offer a Military Alliance with Hitler


    It would be wishful thinking if it could be stated that the leaders of the Zionist movement sat back and ignored the plight of their dying brothers and sisters. Not only did they publicly refuse to assist in their rescue, but they actively participated with Hitler and the Nazi regime. Early in 1935, a passenger ship bound for Haifa in Palestine left the German port of Bremerhaven. Its stern bore the Hebrew letter for its name, "Tel Aviv", while a swastika banner fluttered from the mast. And although the ship was Zionist owned, its captain was a National Socialist Party (Nazi) member. Many years later a traveler aboard the ship recalled this symbolic combination as a "metaphysical absurdity". Absurd or not, this is but one vignette from a little-known chapter of history: The wide ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler's Third Reich. In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as the main enemy of Zionism.


    Zionist, far too conniving and clever for their own good - that's for sure.

    Geoff when you open your blogg will you be contacting Lenni Brenner, or Miko Peled and family to discuss, and clarify your obsession?

    In the mean time it would be best to go easy on the self-abuse, it must be exhausting, and from where I'm watching it's embarrassing.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous12:19 PM

    "Geoffff's Joint, Bar and Grill" coming soon. Putting the pricks in their place for all the world to see.

    Perfect.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous12:51 PM

    I have thought about it Justin. Long and hard. Obviously you have too. I don't even know who the "Paled family" is.

    Geoff I have posted a number of videos of the Peled family including Matti (the General) Miko his son, and also Matti's daughter (re education/propaganda).

    You refuse to watch them no doubt. I can understand why - it (the truth?) would be too painful to watch.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattityahu_Peled

    Mattityahu "Matti" Peled (Hebrew: מתתיהו "מתי" פלד‎, born Mattityahu Ifland on 20 July 1923, died 10 March 1995) was a well-known Israeli public figure who was at various periods of his life a professional military man who reached the rank of Aluf (Major General) in the IDF and was a member of the General Staff during the Six Day War of 1967; a notable scholar who headed the Arabic Language and Literature Department of Tel Aviv University; a radical peace activist and a leading proponent of Israeli dialogue with the PLO and of complete withdrawal from the Occupied Territories in whose conquest he personally had a major role; and a member of the Knesset who often expressed controversial views considered "extreme left" in Israeli terms, yet was treated with considerable respect by staunch political opponents. Wiki



    Geoff, with your knowledge of all things Israel (including threats) then only be a mug would believe that you know nothing of Matti Peled.

    I remember not so long ago (on WD) you claimed to have little awareness of neo-conservatism, and what it stood for (even though it oozes from your every pore), but now you claim to be a proud neo-con Zionists. What goes in Geoffff World?


    Why would anybody believe anything you have to write?

    j

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous1:01 PM

    Wow, we are close to 100 comments Geoff.

    I'm going for the ton.

    Keep your head down you prick.

    I do Geoff, but can't manage to get it down as far down as you.

    You're a champ mate, a real champ.

    j

    ReplyDelete
  93. Damn it.

    Stalled at 92.

    ReplyDelete